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Hey! Vegans! You are not moral!

04 Oct

I recently became friends with a vegan. I frequently tell her how illogical veganism is and how they are hurting animals and not protecting them when they scream “blood sports” (i.e. hunting) are evil! Any way, I found an article that addresses veganists on a moral ground. Atheism and I disagree with much on a foundational level, however, we have found common ground here! Below you will find that article. Enjoy!

Vegan Proselytizers: Cognitive Dissonance Much?

I’ve grown weary of the growing number of proselytizing tirades from vegetarians and vegans; especially when they try to make eating meat a moral issue. Vegetarianism is a dietary preference . . . that’s all it is. Vegans take vegetarianism to its illogical extreme and invariably attempt to make it a moral issue. When they do, they are, at best, confusing compassion with morality. At worst, they’re food fascists wielding the scepter of moral superiority.

Go ahead and cite all the reasons why humans are herbivores. Yeah, list them to your heart’s content. Done? Now, get in your car, drive around, open your eyes and mind, then soak in the reality: McDonald’s, KFC, Burger King, Wendy’s, Sizzler, and other chain restaurants that purvey meat. How many restaurants don’t purvey meat? Barbeque, seafood, Chinese, Mexican, Italian, Japanese, Thai, French, Cuban, whatever: they all prominently feature meat. It’s even hard to find an Indian restaurant that doesn’t begrudge meat on their menu. Now don’t you feel silly, standing there with your list of reasons why we’re herbivores? There’s no denying we’re omnivores. Period.

If you’re unfazed by practical evidence, maybe physical proof might persuade you. Omnivores are adapted to eat both plants and animals. Herbivores are adapted to eat plants. This doesn’t mean herbivores can’t eat meat: it only means they’re physiologically evolved for a diet of plant material. By the way, it should be noted at this point that NO mammal is 100% herbivore – not even the ones we identify as herbivores – because no mammal can survive infancy without mother’s milk (or a man-made “formula” concocted as a substitute) . . . and as you know, mother’s milk is laden with animal fat. Anyway, Vitamin B12 is produced by bacterial symbiosis in both plants and animals but can only be consumed from meat; not veggies. According to the FDA, the USDA, the CDC and their counterparts in other countries, vitamin B12 is not available from plants: you can only get B12 from meat or from synthesized B12 found in artificially fortified foods and pills. This is proof that we are not adapted to eat only plants: it’s proof that we’re not herbivores. Close, but no cigar. We are not herbivores. Period.

And, by the way, calcium can only be found in a select few dark green leafy veggies, such as: collard greens, turnip greens, bok choy, mustard greens and a few varieties of seaweed. The USDA warns vegetarians that: “Consuming enough plant foods to meet calcium needs may be unrealistic for many.” Humans are, and always have been, omnivores. It’s not a matter of opinion: it’s a simple matter of fact – and thus, not subject to debate. “Humans are herbivores” is a ridiculous claim from the get-go regardless of how many vegan propaganda publications you want to cite to the contrary.

Then there’s the “primates are herbivores” variant of the argument. It’s hard to tell if those who make this argument are ignorant, stupid or lying. The fact is: some primates are herbivores and some are omnivores. Humans are primates and, as already established, are omnivores. Chimps will also eat meat, sometimes scavenging it. If you go back far enough (millions of years) through our evolutionary history, you’ll eventually reach a predecessor species that was an herbivore. That was then. This is now. Since then, our predecessor species began supplementing their diets with meat. By the time homo sapien sapiens entered the scene, we were solidly in the omnivore camp: with the teeth and stomach to prove it. We have ALWAYS eaten meat: we’ve always been omnivores. It’s in our genes.

Another argument that flies in the face of reality is the “vegetarian diets are healthier for you” claim. I will concede that it is possible to eat a strictly vegetarian diet and remain healthy. But the fact is, you need to eat a wide variety of plants – augmented by B12 and calcium fortified foods or pills – to meet your minimum dietary requirements. And that means you need access to those plants and fortified foods – the full complement of which are only available in well-stocked grocery stores. Even then, doctors recommend dietary supplements to make sure vegetarians get all the nutrients they need. If you’re in the U.S., then you can likely find everything you need at the grocery store (assuming you can afford it). But if you’re in the third world somewhere or in a remote area, you might not be able to sustain a healthy vegetarian diet.

I did try a vegetarian diet, many years ago, when I was young. I never felt satisfied and my jaws frequently ached from chewing, chewing, chewing. Soon meat became too tempting and I quit after about a month or so. There was no sense in denying what I am: an omnivore.

Vegetarian diets are not the healthiest diets. Authoritative dietary experts agree that the healthiest diets include a wide range of foods, including meat and veggies. Research indicates that fish and white meat are normally healthier than red meat but red meat is fine in moderation. Claims to the contrary are pure poppycock.

Many vegetarians started eating a veggie diet because they were turned off by the sight or experience of eating meat. The grease and juices and sinew; the idea that it was alive and kicking just recently. Not much can be said about these subjective reasons. If that’s the way you feel, that’s the way you feel. I don’t begrudge you your vegetarian dietary preference.

Most vegetarians believe it is wrong – as in, immoral – to kill animals for food. If they really believe this, they’re confusing compassion with morality. There’s just one thing they need to keep in mind: morality can’t deny reality and remain valid. The indisputable fact that we are omnivores is a fundamental human reality. My morality accommodates this reality. What about yours?

Mother nature is a zombie. She’s red in tooth and claw. Life can be ugly and survival is, more often than not, violent. I don’t feel sorry for livestock because they’ve filled an evolutionary niche, in service to humanity, that has guaranteed their genes will be passed on indefinitely. Livestock are prolific because of animal husbandry – which dates back to the first domestication of animals. Not only are their large populations assured . . . they no longer have to face predators, draughts or famines. When slaughtered legally, a sheep, cow, pig or chicken led to slaughter dies without the panic and adrenaline terror that accompanies the pursuit, capture and tearing of live flesh, by predators. You think the slaughtering of livestock is inhumane? It’s immensely preferable to what Mother Zombie has in store: death by starvation, dehydration, disease or predator.

The most annoying vegan claim is the claim of moral superiority. I am repulsed by claims of moral superiority for the same reasons I’m repulsed by claims of racial superiority: it’s totalitarian, fascist and intolerant. Give me a break! It’s ridiculous to pretend that morality hinges on eating meat. Morality has multitudinous considerations that we adhere to by varying degrees relative to each other and relative to other people. Diet is just one of those considerations. Even if eating meat were a moral issue (and it’s not), not eating meat doesn’t make you morally superior. It’s just one of many facets of morality: are you morally superior in every way? How naive can you get for Christ’s sake!?! Such a clueless claim serves only to reveal a deep-seated insecurity: the same as with neo-Nazis and skinheads. Superior my ass!

The three monotheistic, Abrahamic, religions – Judaism, Christianity and Islam – all claim possession of the one true God and, by extension, the moral truth. Because they worship the one true God, their morality is, naturally, superior to all others. It’s these claims to superiority that has made the Abrahamic religions THE most persistently divisive influence in the history of mankind. By claiming moral superiority, vegetarians and vegans are making the same mistake. Morality doesn’t hinge on which God you worship and it sure as hell doesn’t hinge on what you eat.

Vegetarians and vegans should consider the possibility that they’re confusing morality with compassion. I will readily concede they have more compassion for livestock than I do. But so what? Compassion, like morality, has multitudinous considerations that we adhere to by varying degrees relative to each other and relative to other people. For instance, animal rights and women’s reproductive rights are both embraced by liberal-minded progressives – not that you have to be liberal or progressive to embrace them. It’s been my experience that many of the same liberals who bemoan the plight of livestock also endorse late-term abortions – even up to the end of term.

Now, keep in mind that late-term abortions are abortions performed after fetal viability (i.e. the fetus could survive outside the womb, given appropriate postnatal care). Claiming that reproductive rights trump fetal viability all the way to the end of term is the same as claiming it’s okay to kill a fully viable fetus! A fully viable fetus needs only to be removed from the womb to instantly become a baby: a person. Whether it’s internal or external is a mere technicality.

So what we have here is a person who cries out for the plight of livestock, yet has no problem with killing a fully viable fetus. How, exactly, does this person define words like ‘inhumane’, ‘compassion’, ‘humanity’, ‘morality’, ‘progressive’, or ‘reason’?

Cognitive dissonance much?

And finally, there’s the “toxic to the environment” argument. Well, insecticides, fungicides and synthetic fertilizers are also toxic to the environment. They are necessary to protect harvests and feed the world’s 7 billion mouths. It would be more accurate (and less biased) to say that food production – both veggies and meat – are toxic to the environment. But of all the environmentally harmful factors we must deal with, it ranks well below vehicular and industrial pollution (not that this means we can safely ignore the problem). ‘Green’ farming is a nice idea but can’t yet achieve the production levels necessary to meet demand.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot . . . the reason our predecessor species suddenly developed bigger brains is because they began supplementing their fruit, veggies, legumes, tubers, grains, nuts and seeds with meat. It wasn’t just our brains that got bigger; so did our bodies. Vegetarians and vegans need to ask themselves, if a vegetarian diet is so good for us, why did it take meat to make the difference in our intellectual capacity and physique? The switch from herbivore to omnivore is a major milestone in our evolution.

Vegetarianism/veganism is not a proper topic for proselytizing. If you prefer to just eat veggies, then good for you. Implying we are less moral or less humane because we eat meat is simply ignoring the facts in a futile attempt to foist your personal preferences on us. We don’t appreciate it. Humans are omnivores: we eat meat and most of us love it. That’s not going to change any time soon.

Get over it.

 
2 Comments

Posted by on October 4, 2013 in Annoyances, Food

 

2 responses to “Hey! Vegans! You are not moral!

  1. Nick

    December 10, 2013 at 1:36 am

    A Bone to Pick Refutation and Destruction

    Never mind the amateurish writing, often the information that you provide here is false, and your opinions are absurd. I will go through each part of this article, and destroy it.

    “I was a carnist until I started wanting to be moral.”

    “I’ve grown weary of the growing number of proselytizing tirades from vegetarians and vegans; especially when they try to make eating meat a moral issue.”

    I’ve grown weary of the number of proselytizing tirades from carnists, especially when they try to pretend that it’s not a moral issue. Thankfully though, while the number of vegans is growing, carnists are declining. :)

    “Vegetarianism is a dietary preference . . . that’s all it is.”

    Yes, both vegetarianism and veganism at the most basic level is a diet preference, but at higher levels, veganism is the practice of causing the least amount of harm to innocent beings as possible, and that of course includes not eating meat, but also not eating dairy and eggs, as well as not wearing leather, fur, silk, or wool, and not engaging in animal testing. The reasons for this are several. One is for the clear and great health benefits of such a diet. Another biggie is to avoid the deep destruction that a carnist’s diet brings upon the planet, including not only disease, but deforestation and pollution. That right there is a reason that deals with ethics. Another reason is purely ethical, and that is the idea that it’s morally wrong to harm innocent persons, be it a human or an animal. So as you can see, it’s more than just a dietary preference; it’s a health and moral preference.

    “Vegans take vegetarianism to its illogical extreme and invariably attempt to make it a moral issue.”

    You mean in the same way that it is illogical to make slavery a moral issue? Like that?

    “When they do, they are, at best, confusing compassion with morality.”

    It seems that you are the one who is confused. Allow me to educate you. Having compassion is a big part of being moral. It is difficult to see someone as being moral if they have no compassion, and if they have compassion, they’re already exhibiting a major part morality.

    “At worst, they’re food fascists wielding the scepter of moral superiority.”

    Animals are not food; not to humans who live in modern civilizations, and so the fact that murder is acceptable to you allows me to wield my scepter of moral superiority over you without shame. :)

    “Go ahead and cite all the reasons why humans are herbivores. Yeah, list them to your heart’s content. Done? Now, get in your car, drive around, open your eyes and mind, then soak in the reality: McDonald’s, KFC, Burger King, Wendy’s, Sizzler, and other chain restaurants that purvey meat. How many restaurants don’t purvey meat? Barbeque, seafood, Chinese, Mexican, Italian, Japanese, Thai, French, Cuban, whatever: they all prominently feature meat. It’s even hard to find an Indian restaurant that doesn’t begrudge meat on their menu. Now don’t you feel silly, standing there with your list of reasons why we’re herbivores? There’s no denying we’re omnivores. Period.”

    I don’t feel silly at all. We’ve only gone into a few paragraphs, and already you made big mistake number two. The first of course was your confusion regarding ethics and compassion. Now you don’t even understand how animals are scientifically classified according to diet.

    You are under the impression that someone’s diet classification is determined by an individual’s diet, or the idea it is determined only by what life forms generally eat, or what they’re able to eat. This is a big misconception, and so it is important that I correct you on your mistake.

    You eat both meat and plants, so you like to call yourself an omnivore. You clearly believe that your species is omnivorous from the fact that so many Homo sapiens eat both. And it seems that you’re okay with calling yourself an omnivore since you are clearly able, as practically any human being is, to eat both. This is incorrect thinking. Here is why:

    How an animal is classified according to diet has to do with their nutritional needs. Some animals’ bodies are clearly optimal for meat consumption, and need meat in order to survive. Some are clearly optimal for plant consumption. Some need both, or can consume both receiving equal benefits. It has nothing to do with what you as an individual eat, what your particular species generally eats, or what you are able to eat.

    Your way of thinking suggests that because cats eat plants, that makes them omnivores. Give me a break! Cats are carnivores. They need meat! Plants do barely anything for them. Your absurd notion that cats are omnivores merely because they occasionally enjoy eating plants is, well…absurd. Likewise, a chimp occasionally eating a monkey doesn’t change the fact that they are by far more vegan than carnist, and that a vegan/herbivorous diet is what is optimal for them.

    So while you might eat both meat and plants, and while most humans do, and while you are certainly able to eat both, that doesn’t make you an omnivore. In order to determine whether or not you as well as all humans are omnivores, we have to examine the human body, and determine how necessary meat and/or plants are in order to achieve optimal health. As it turns out, the human body is not designed all that well for the consumption of meat, and so it should be no surprise that meat is also detrimental to its health. The fact is that humans live longer, and higher quality lives without meat and animal products in general. Based on these facts, it is rather difficult, for me at least, to call a human an omnivore. They sure look like herbivores to me.

    So like I said, given the facts, humans sure do appear to be herbivores. You can eat all of the meat that you want; that’s never going to make you an omnivore. You can cut out all of your plants, and eat meat only, and that won’t make you a carnivore. The truth is that you are a herbivore who is trying to live on an omnivore’s diet, and by doing that, you are playing with your health. I’m not saying that you can’t live a decent life while eating meat, but what I’m saying is that you could be doing better, and that your health is not optimal.

    However, in all honesty, I really don’t care whether or not you call humans omnivores or herbivores. We could even pretend for the sake of argument that humans are indeed omnivores, and that wouldn’t change my position one bit. The fact remains that humans live healthier without meat and animal products, and because we don’t need them, it is then morally wrong for us to use them for such things.

    “Omnivores are adapted to eat both plants and animals. Herbivores are adapted to eat plants. This doesn’t mean herbivores can’t eat meat: it only means they’re physiologically evolved for a diet of plant material.”

    Exactly! It looks like you actually know what I just educated you on, but you’re willing to ignore the facts in order to support your unhealthy and unnatural life style. Cognitive dissonance much?

    “By the way, it should be noted at this point that NO mammal is 100% herbivore – not even the ones we identify as herbivores – because no mammal can survive infancy without mother’s milk (or a man-made “formula” concocted as a substitute) . . . and as you know, mother’s milk is laden with animal fat.”

    That’s true, and there’s certainly nothing wrong with drinking milk when it is yours to drink. It is however very wrong to torture other animals in order to steal their milk.

    “Anyway, Vitamin B12 is produced by bacterial symbiosis in both plants and animals but can only be consumed from meat; not veggies.”

    Incorrect. Humans having been getting B12 naturally from plants for millions of years. The problem is that in the modern world, we over-sanitize the plants that we eat, and that rids all B12 from them. This destroys your idea that humans are not herbivores due to B12. Period.

    “And, by the way, calcium can only be found in a select few dark green leafy veggies, such as: collard greens, turnip greens, bok choy, mustard greens and a few varieties of seaweed. The USDA warns vegetarians that: “Consuming enough plant foods to meet calcium needs may be unrealistic for many.”

    That’s odd since veggies are a better source of calcium, both in quantity and safety. What might make it unrealistic for many is the possibility that certain vegetarians might not like certain foods that contain these high amounts of calcium. This does nothing to change the fact that humans are herbivores. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes concerning food. Individuals’ food preferences don’t change whether or not their species is a herbivore. It’s not a matter of opinion; it’s a simple matter of fact, and thus not subject to debate.

    “If you go back far enough (millions of years) through our evolutionary history, you’ll eventually reach a predecessor species that was an herbivore. That was then. This is now.”

    I don’t know of any vegan who makes the claim that we are herbivores only because our predecessor species were herbivores. I believe that this is mainly brought up only to add support to the idea that meat was not as important to our evolution as carnists like to think that it is. Carnists actually try to convince us that it’s okay to eat meat since our human ancestors ate meat. But as you say, that was then; this is now. Modern civilized humans do not need to eat meat. This is a fact, therefore, not subject to debate. It’s immoral.

    “By the time homo sapien sapiens entered the scene, we were solidly in the omnivore camp: with the teeth and stomach to prove it.”

    This is like saying that wings on a penguin prove that penguins fly. Canine teeth in no way could ever be used to prove that humans are omnivores. The vestigial canine teeth of humans are not the hunting tools used by true omnivores and carnivores like cats and dogs. Try eating an animal like a true carnivore/omnivore would. Try catching a wild animal, and eating it without conveniently buying it already chopped up from your grocery store. I’d like to see you try to bite into the thick flesh of an animal through its fur/scales using your amazing canine teeth. Lol.

    The truth is, your pesky canine teeth reminds me of someone trying to convince the ladies that they’re such a manly man by showing off their penis size, only to be outdone by another man whose penis is three times larger. Face the facts; your little sharp teeth are not meant for meat. They are however great for chewing up plants. No, they don’t magically shield themselves when you put veggies into your mouth, and only reappear when you start eating meat. And the human body as a whole is optimal for plant-consumption. Sorry.

    “We have ALWAYS eaten meat: we’ve always been omnivores. It’s in our genes.”

    Humans have ALWAYS enslaved and raped other persons; we’ve always been barbaric and cruel. It’s in our genes. That doesn’t make it right though. Perhaps you need an education in logic as well?

    “Another argument that flies in the face of reality is the “vegetarian diets are healthier for you” claim. I will concede that it is possible to eat a strictly vegetarian diet and remain healthy. But the fact is, you need to eat a wide variety of plants – augmented by B12 and calcium fortified foods or pills – to meet your minimum dietary requirements.”

    Eating a wide variety of plants in order to meet your minimum dietary requirements is much healthier than eating a narrow variety of meat that will give you dangerous amounts of saturated fat, cholesterol, and carcinogens that will ultimately require you to take pills, and undergo surgeries in order to keep you “healthy” and alive from all of the heart attacks, strokes, and cancers that you will acquire from the meat. Sounds healthy. Lol.

    “And that means you need access to those plants and fortified foods – the full complement of which are only available in well-stocked grocery stores.”

    While that is true, this wouldn’t be a problem in just about any modern civilization, and furthermore, grocery stores not being stocked with such foods is a problem of such civilizations, not with veganism.

    “Even then, doctors recommend dietary supplements to make sure vegetarians get all the nutrients they need.”

    Doctors recommend dietary supplements to all persons, and more medicine will be required for carnists who get sick from their meat-eating habits.

    “If you’re in the U.S., then you can likely find everything you need at the grocery store (assuming you can afford it).”

    Oops. A vegan diet is actually less expensive than a meat-based one. It is only when you start eating meat and animal product imitations that it starts getting more expensive. But again, this is not a problem with veganism. If there were more vegans, the prices would be down, and carnists would be the ones having a difficult time buying their meat.

    “But if you’re in the third world somewhere or in a remote area, you might not be able to sustain a healthy vegetarian diet.”

    If you’re in the third world somewhere or in a remote area, the chances are good that you might not be able to sustain a healthy diet period.

    “I did try a vegetarian diet, many years ago, when I was young. I never felt satisfied and my jaws frequently ached from chewing, chewing, chewing.”

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Did you honestly expect anyone to fall for this notion that you had to chew more in order to be a vegetarian?? Allow me to laugh again. Hahahahaha!

    “Soon meat became too tempting and I quit after about a month or so.”

    And that’s the whole point, isn’t it…you like meat, and that is why you eat it. You don’t care about others, and that’s a characteristic of immorality.

    “There was no sense in denying what I am: an omnivore.”

    What you are is someone who doesn’t care about the suffering of innocent persons. Stop trying to use word-play. You are what you are; a selfish person who cares more about their own pleasure than the suffering of innocent persons.

    “Vegetarian diets are not the healthiest diets. Authoritative dietary experts agree that the healthiest diets include a wide range of foods, including meat and veggies. Research indicates that fish and white meat are normally healthier than red meat but red meat is fine in moderation. Claims to the contrary are pure poppycock.”

    Having a hatred for science is better left up to the theists. If you don’t like or appreciate science, then my suggestion is for you to join your nearest church. Scientific study after study continually concludes that vegetarian and vegan diets are the healthiest diets that you can have. They also show that they are the healthiest diets for our home…planet Earth. Your love for eating dead animal flesh is not going to change these facts. You can close your eyes if you want to, but by doing that, you’re only endangering your health, the health of your loved ones, and the health of the planet.

    “Many vegetarians started eating a veggie diet because they were turned off by the sight or experience of eating meat. The grease and juices and sinew; the idea that it was alive and kicking just recently. Not much can be said about these subjective reasons. If that’s the way you feel, that’s the way you feel.”

    Yeah, and something tells me that you’d be turned off by the sight or experience of eating human meat. The grease and juices and sinew; the idea that the human was alive and kicking just recently…Not much can be said about these subjective reasons either. I guess if that’s the way that you feel about it, that’s the way you feel. You shouldn’t begrudge persons for their preference of eating humans. Right?

    “My morality accommodates this reality. What about yours?”

    We already established that compassion is a part of being moral, and that humans are herbivores, and that we don’t need meat in order to survive; in fact we are healthier without it. Knowing this, I’d say that your morality accommodates fantasy; a selfish behavior that you have no support for.

    “Mother nature is a zombie. She’s red in tooth and claw. Life can be ugly and survival is, more often than not, violent.”

    Yes, but we have the power to change that; to make the world a better place. Your way of thinking is very non-progressive; limited…primitive. Look how far humans have come in terms of progress because they DIDN’T follow your way of thinking.

    “I don’t feel sorry for livestock because they’ve filled an evolutionary niche, in service to humanity, that has guaranteed their genes will be passed on indefinitely.”

    Oops; more religious-type thinking; thinking that humans are somehow special; the center of the universe, and that animals were made for us. Of course you don’t feel bad. Religionists never do…I mean carnists. Sorry, it’s often easy to get theists and meat-eaters confused.

    “Livestock are prolific because of animal husbandry – which dates back to the first domestication of animals. Not only are their large populations assured . . . they no longer have to face predators, draughts or famines. When slaughtered legally, a sheep, cow, pig or chicken led to slaughter dies without the panic and adrenaline terror that accompanies the pursuit, capture and tearing of live flesh, by predators. You think the slaughtering of livestock is inhumane? It’s immensely preferable to what Mother Zombie has in store: death by starvation, dehydration, disease or predator.”

    This is such an immature response to an important issue. You’re saying that it’s okay to murder animals since doing so keeps their numbers high? You’re suggesting that it’s okay to torture them since the torture that they’d experience in nature would be worse? Here’s a better idea. Let’s allow nature to run its course while not taking part in its cruelty, and at the same time show love and compassion to others. You are incapable of this way of life due to your religion…I mean carnism, but you CAN change. Pray to Jesus…I mean stop hating science, research the facts, and consider a better world without unnecessary suffering.

    “The most annoying vegan claim is the claim of moral superiority.”

    Well it’s always annoying when someone more moral than you calls you out on your immorality. Hitler was probably annoyed when others pointed out to him that he was wrong for what he was doing. Being immoral means that you’re going to be annoyed by those more moral than you. It’s just how it is.

    “I am repulsed by claims of moral superiority for the same reasons I’m repulsed by claims of racial superiority: it’s totalitarian, fascist and intolerant.”

    Wrong. Nobody chooses to be their race, and it can’t be demonstrated that any race is better than another. However, you CAN choose to be a murderer, and it CAN be demonstrated that persons with compassion are morally superior to persons who support murder.

    “Give me a break!”

    Give the animals a break.

    “It’s ridiculous to pretend that morality hinges on eating meat.”

    Let’s test your idea. Let’s take your statement, and add one word: It’s ridiculous to pretend that morality hinges on eating human meat. If you can find something wrong with that statement, then you’ll know what’s wrong with yours.

    “Morality has multitudinous considerations that we adhere to by varying degrees relative to each other and relative to other people.”

    When you cause unjust harm to innocent persons, it’s immoral.

    “Diet is just one of those considerations. Even if eating meat were a moral issue (and it’s not), not eating meat doesn’t make you morally superior.”

    Please explain to us how murder isn’t immoral. I’m dying to hear this.

    “Morality doesn’t hinge on which God you worship and it sure as hell doesn’t hinge on what you eat.”

    Actually it does. What you eat could be the result of murder and torture. If you don’t think that murder and torture of innocents is wrong, then you might already be a theist.

    “Vegetarians and vegans should consider the possibility that they’re confusing morality with compassion.”

    You should consider the possibility that you don’t know what morality or compassion are.

    “I will readily concede they have more compassion for livestock than I do. But so what?”

    You just conceded that in this sense, we are more moral than you. Compassion is, after all, a major part of being moral.

    “So what we have here is a person who cries out for the plight of livestock, yet has no problem with killing a fully viable fetus.”

    I agree that many vegans need to reconsider how they view unborn fetuses. I’m with you on that one.

    “Well, insecticides, fungicides and synthetic fertilizers are also toxic to the environment.”

    Your attempt to refute the problems that eating meat inflict upon the planet is very weak. The idea that insecticides, fungicides, and synthetic fertilizers are also toxic to the environment, and therefore it’s okay to continue eating meat, a practice which does much more harm than any of these things do, is insane.

    “Oh yeah, I almost forgot . . . the reason our predecessor species suddenly developed bigger brains is because they began supplementing their fruit, veggies, legumes, tubers, grains, nuts and seeds with meat.”

    I was wondering when you were going to get to this. If you care about reality, and you don’t, the fact is that this has never been confirmed by science to be true. Even if it was, that was then; this is now. There is no question that things have gotten better in the world due to cruel practices, but that doesn’t make those practices morally correct. The United States of America becoming the world’s leading super power by murdering the natives, and stealing their land. Does that make it okay? Should we continue this practice? That is what your logic is telling me.

    “Vegetarians and vegans need to ask themselves, if a vegetarian diet is so good for us, why did it take meat to make the difference in our intellectual capacity and physique?”

    Carnists who ask this question would have to ask themselves what this question has to do with how meat and plants affect our bodies now. The fact is that humans live healthier lives without meat. Obviously, even if our ancestors became intelligent by eating meat, which there is no conclusive evidence to suggest it, that’s not going to affect how meat is affecting us now.

    “The switch from herbivore to omnivore is a major milestone in our evolution.”

    Compassion should be our next major milestone in our evolution.

    Carnism is wrong. It’s immoral. Continuing to eat meat requires you to ignore facts, mock science, and to embrace selfishness. It also requires you to harm living innocent beings. They don’t appreciate it. Humans are herbivores; we used to eat meat due to survival reasons, and now we eat it because we simply enjoy it. There’s no other reason. To pretend that carnists aren’t selfish is just a way of acting out a delusion. Vegans are morally superior to carnists. That’s not going to change any time soon. Get over it.

    Carnists: Immorality much?

     

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